Rebel Equipment Limit

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Mistery14

Headcrab
Dec 10, 2019
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Let's face it, rarely will a rebel will be seen with more than 3-4 ammo boxes if he means business. I don't really get the point of it. CPs get 45/500 of ammo by the simple press of the E key on the box in the nexus. That's pretty much it.

Rebels have to craft/buy it all, so I guess it kind of balances itself out.
 

X_mezo_X

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Aug 17, 2020
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to sum it up (again) i1 unions have an mp7, their ammo count (including reserve) is 45/500, Rebels who invest enough can hold the same ammount in their gun which is again 45/500, but they can still hold as many mp7 smg ammo boxes in their inventory as their weight limit allows, which means they don't have to retreat as often as Civil Protection, I think it would make sense to put a number limit on how many ammo boxes a rebel can hold (i suggest 3 or 4), so they can keep their potential extra ammo advantage, but still have to retreat to give Civil Protection a bit of a breather from time to time instead of the usual, "attack, attack again, keep attacking, still attacking" until either a JW is activated, or they die, it would not only be a sensible strategic move on the rebels part since CPs can only follow them into their sewer for so long and it could prevent a JW, and it again lets CP have a break. But apparently me being a CP main automatically invalidates any point I make in the eyes of a rebel main...
Let me tell you this, the last time i dared to go past the ammo limit (having 6/54 Shotgun ammo) i died with like 40 ammo (that's 4 buckshot boxes or 16 gunpowder and 8 bullet casings laid to waste) still in my reserve in a plaza raid, another time was me going with 8 boxes worth of SMG ammo to a nexus raid and i died before i could even fire a single shot, and guess what? that ammo that i died with could not be retrieved, it's gone forever and i'll need to get resources to craft that ammo agian, yes rebels can actually carry more ammo than CPs but guess what? this rarely happens for 2 reasons, first one being them estimating how long they want to fight before retreating, the other being the resource barrier, those are good enough reasons why rebels will never dare to go past the ammo limit because the resources and health are issues that rebels can't recover from easily.
 

Skadoodle

Barnacle
Dec 3, 2019
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Sorry but this makes no sense.

MPF and OTA already get shit tons of ammo for free ( for example i1's get about 10 clips of ammo for smg whereas rebels need to craft 1 clip at a time )
Rebels have to craft their ammo which is already expensive and takes time, no rebel will have more than 3-4 boxes of ammo on them since tbh they don't get to fight that long, they either die or have to retreat
 

Donald Reagan

Barnacle
Dec 26, 2020
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I am referring to actual rebel mains, like that one guy who made a suggestion about hl2 grenades for rebels only
or in other words, the rebel mains who think cp mains are scum that deserve to suffer and think rebels are "underpowered" when they are clearly overpowered (at least compared to CP firepower i can't say the same for a group of rebels against a bunch of rangers)
You are aware that some suggestions are jokes to make people angry right?
 

Randomolition

Barnacle
Aug 7, 2020
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I see all of your points, but I now have a point of my own thanks to a first hand experience at the most bullshit thing I've seen and heard in all my time in the server.

It was the third judgement waiver in what felt like an hour or less. There was a huge rebel holdout in the top floor of the slums apartment, mostly mp7s and spas-12s I wanna say, (I didn't see the weapons but I heard them) OTA vests helmets, I heard they had combat gasmasks too when a grid threw teargas, and they had a purple Vortigaunt which gives them wallhacks to see combine.

But the stupidest (or at least the strangest) thing I've ever had to witness, was that they literally had damn near infinite ammo, because they were using their stash box in the apartment to take out more boxes of their stashed ammo. OTA and CPs were either dying, or running out of ammo and needed to retreat, while they stayed cozy in their apartment that has a ladder choke point for 20+ minutes. this is the perfect example of what I'm talking about, but it involves an entirely different part of the issue which, I didn't even know was possible or allowed, because this is the first time I saw it.

So screw an ammo box limit, make every stash box in the city have the same properties as the ones out in the 404 zones, either not accessible at all during JW, or at least make it so you can't take anything out of them until its over.
 
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X_mezo_X

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Aug 17, 2020
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I see all of your points, but I now have a point of my own thanks to a first hand experience at the most bullshit thing I've seen and heard in all my time in the server.

It was the third judgement waiver in what felt like an hour or less. There was a huge rebel holdout in the top floor of the slums apartment, mostly mp7s and spas-12s I wanna say, (I didn't see the weapons but I heard them) OTA vests helmets, I heard they had combat gasmasks too when a grid threw teargas, and they had a purple Vortigaunt which gives them wallhacks to see combine.

But the stupidest (or at least the strangest) thing I've ever had to witness, was that they literally had damn near infinite ammo, because they were using their stash box in the apartment to take out more boxes of their stashed ammo. OTA and CPs were either dying, or running out of ammo and needed to retreat, while they stayed cozy in their apartment that has a ladder choke point for 20+ minutes. this is the perfect example of what I'm talking about, but it involves an entirely different part of the issue which, I didn't even know was possible or allowed, because this is the first time I saw it.

So screw an ammo box limit, make every stash box in the city have the same properties as the ones out in the 404 zones, either not accessible at all during JW, or at least make it so you can't take anything out of them until its over.
I Took part in this as an OTA, only one of them had an OTA vest no one had helmets, and all of them had gas masks to counter the tear gas, the entire issue in this whole thing wasn't the ammo, it was the fact that rebels took advantage of that choke-point to the best of their ability (Like them using the M60 for this whole thing in general because that is where the M60 shines)... and again as i was telling you, the rebels only fire when they need to... as i said in the previous post.
Let's take the same logic into account if rebels are the ones attacking nexus with the combine defending it using choke-points and such to their advantage... and boom, you have your precious ammo boxes that grant the combine infinite ammo disabled because otherwise they can sit in their cozy defenses and fight on for days, like... COMMON SENSE! That is literally the point of a holdout! if you have ammo supplies you're not just gonna sit there and let yourself run out of ammo, you're gonna hold your ground to the last bullet.. the only reason OTA were retreating was to recharge their suit armor because otherwise there's no way to restore that.. and let me tell you i myself had to retreat multiple times for this, but still tried to take some parts of it to my advantage as well.
You are here trying to make a suggestion against something when the actual problem is something COMPLETELY unrelated to that suggestion...
 
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Randomolition

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Aug 7, 2020
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if rebels are the ones attacking nexus with the combine defending it using choke-points and such to their advantage... and boom, you have your precious ammo boxes that grant the combine infinite ammo disabled because otherwise they can sit in their cozy defenses and fight on for days
The difference between the rebels and the combine is that the rebels have scarce resources and the combine have all the resources. it makes sense that the combine would have infinite ammo in their base of operations, if it was a holdout in the outlands that'd be a different situation because thats where the rebels reign supreme, because that's where they'd stash their ammo. we're still talking about an alien species that took over the planet in seven hours. the combine vs rebels thing is supposed to be unbalanced, but its supposed to be unbalanced in favor of the combine because they're the rulers of the whole god damned planet at this point in time
the entire issue in this whole thing wasn't the ammo, it was the fact that rebels took advantage of that choke-point to the best of their ability
You are here trying to make a suggestion against something when the actual problem is something COMPLETELY unrelated to that suggestion...
the chokepoint was only an issue because they had pretty much infinite ammo to focus on the ladder (btw it seems c8 is the only map with that horrible choke point, which is why i hate c8)
i myself had to retreat multiple times for this
exactly. im always seeing *combine* retreating, i never see rebels have the need to retreat for ammo or anything, they just hunker down in some op choke point and turn it into an unbreakable fortress
 
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X_mezo_X

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Aug 17, 2020
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The difference between the rebels and the combine is that the rebels have scarce resources and the combine have all the resources. it makes sense that the combine would have infinite ammo in their base of operations, if it was a holdout in the outlands that'd be a different situation because thats where the rebels reign supreme, because that's where they'd stash their ammo. we're still talking about an alien species that took over the planet in seven hours. the combine vs rebels thing is supposed to be unbalanced, but its supposed to be unbalanced in favor of the combine because they're the rulers of the whole god damned planet at this point in time
okay that's a fair point when it comes to lore, however the combine already have grids who can potentially build ladders to climb up to such areas from a different direction, it's just that many don't utilize the ability of Grids to do that thing.

the chokepoint was only an issue because they had pretty much infinite ammo to focus on the ladder (btw it seems c8 is the only map with that horrible choke point, which is why i hate c8)
The chokepoint is the problem, not the rebels' ammo that eventually will run out or with their health that is likely to not be healed (Provided they don't have a rogue).
at one point you'll find many of them having to retreat to make more ammo or to heal , therefore allowing some gaps for the combine to take advantage of.

exactly. im always seeing *combine* retreating, i never see rebels have the need to retreat for ammo or anything, they just hunker down in some op choke point and turn it into an unbreakable fortress
Once again, it is a holdout, and a holdout will always have its limited supply that can make it last as long as it can, if they are entrenched in a spot then logically you bet they'll have brought some resources with them to help their defense, there's no point in retreating in a holdout because the defense is the retreat in itself, rebels face the same problem as combine do when they are on the move, but they get to suffer from ammo issues more than the combine do because of the resource barrier that makes them forced to not make much ammo, it is literally no surprise that a holdout on a chokepoint will help the rebels in conserving as much of their ammo as possible, that's why they pick that ladder in the first place, it helps them focus their firepower on one spot without having to worry about other spots being needed to defend.

Retreating does not mean surrendering, retreating to restock on ammo and get health and armor recharged is a more effective way of staying in the fight for longer than throwing yourself alone into that fight just to instantly die, also retreating at times can mean a much stronger offensive push, combine OTA are still soldiers trained in military tactics after all, and they'll use those tactics in order to achieve the maximum efficiency against the rebellion.
 

Randomolition

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Aug 7, 2020
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the combine already have grids who can potentially build ladders to climb up to such areas from a different direction, it's just that many don't utilize the ability of Grids to do that thing.
this point about grids is solid, but im pretty sure grids don't make ladders (at least not in the slums) is because its a tight space and you can't exactly make a good ladder, since you can easily fall when trying to climb it
 

X_mezo_X

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Aug 17, 2020
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this point about grids is solid, but im pretty sure grids don't make ladders (at least not in the slums) is because its a tight space and you can't exactly make a good ladder, since you can easily fall when trying to climb it
they tried doing it today but the rebels stopped it, eitherway, it's not only ladders, let's say you RP it right that you make something that can make the CPs able to climb up, as long as it's realistic enough it should work.
 

X_mezo_X

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Aug 17, 2020
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Rebels: Exist
CP's: Are literally fucking wiped out
Rebels: Just make ladders bro!
Trust me i did this once in D47 and was pretty much my first ever time playing Grid, it worked and caught the rebels off-guard.
Then they started crying about propclimb before i told them that Grids can do this kind of stuff lol
@Schnuffle Bunny

It was very shitty but it got the job done at least.
 
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Randomolition

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Aug 7, 2020
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Trust me i did this once in D47 and was pretty much my first ever time playing Grid, it worked and caught the rebels off-guard.
Then they started crying about propclimb before i told them that Grids can do this kind of stuff lol
once in D47 i was playing union i1, a grid made a checkpoint by the slums and there were two ota vest and helmet clad m14 rebels (m14 before the nerf) at the end of the road and we couldn't deal with them and we were all dying, as everyone else was taking cover behind the point i snuck around through a nearby building, and i managed to gun them both down with an mp7 (just remembered it when you mentioned catching rebels off guard)
 

Speedbt

Barnacle
Dec 29, 2019
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that is false, rebels can have a lot more ammo than union i1 who can ONLY hold 45/500 mp7 ammo, a rebel can hold 45/500 PLUS a bunch of boxes of mp7 ammo. also that post actually proves that rebels can hold much more ammo than CPs and OTA
Ok man but, are you taking into account whether they have armor, which is basically a requirement, and heavy weaponry such as a shotgun or smg, which have varying weights, or a gas mask, or a helmet, or other miscellaneous items they may have forgotten to store?
 

Carl Fisherman

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Nov 8, 2020
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Rebels can carry more ammo thanks to the ammo box items, a rebel carrying just a weapon can then carry a bunch of boxes of that weapons ammo type, meaning they don't need to retreat to restock on ammo since the ammo is there in the inventory, while CP and OTA do, I am suggesting a mechanic that limits how much of a certain item type a citizen can carry, examples are, 3 medkits for CWU medics, 3 zipties for CPs, 3 breach charges for OTA, etc. so that rebels can't just infinitely hold out in an apartment next to a storage box like I've seen them do.

Edit: Yes. I am of the mindset that the system favors rebels, when it should favor Combine, since you know... they rule the place
-the combine main